Tone

Discuss playing styles and techniques, or share your own here.
GYiakoumi
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guitarmanK1982 wrote: I think you're unwilling to say that tone, in the sense of what you mean, is 'sound created' - unwilling to admit this because this means that things such as amp etc affect 'tone', and go against your ideas of what 'tone' is.
I told you what I believed, if you think different, fair enough, but that isn't what this topic is about.
If you want to go more in depth about tone, feel free to go start a new topic about it.
besides, at the time I made it perfectly clear to the guy on the bus what I was talking about.
guitarmanK1982 wrote: This would also explain the avoidance of answering the question.


I don't live on the forums, hence the delays.

Don't patronize me and please stop talking about my actions/behavior as if you know me, you got no right, and it just sounds to me as if your looking for trouble.
guitarmanK1982
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RAI wrote:And by that same example, if you took all those guys, and had them just strike a single note (without any special "tricks"), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. "Tone" is in the phrasing and approach to the notes to be played.
So the conclusion is that 'tone' has nothing to do with 'the fingers', but is more to do with musical means?
guitarmanK1982
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GYiakoumi wrote: If you want to go more in depth about tone, feel free to go start a new topic about it.
besides, at the time I made it perfectly clear to the guy on the bus what I was talking about.

You haven't made it perfectly clear here what you mean by 'tone'. All you said was you were arguing about it with a guy on a bus.

It's your thread - i'm trying to find out what you mean by tone. Don't go off on one!!!


'it's in the fingers' isn't an explanation of what tone is. Ask others here.
Ugur Dariveren
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The tone is in my vegetable.
GYiakoumi
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ok hows this.

I believe that the real tone, which separates 1 player from another player is in the fingers. Everybody is unique, that's why if you give 2 separate guitar players identical equipment, they will not sound the same.

If you put Joe Satriani on a Les Paul Standard with a JCM800, he will not sound the same as Slash on a Les Paul Standard with a JCM800.
guitarmanK1982
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Now this is just silly.

It would make more sense for someone to admit that they don't know the meaning of the word they are using, rather than trying to cover their tracks, as this means that even more nonsense has to be fabricated.


It's a simple question - what is 'tone'?


The question isn't 'where is tone'.
GYiakoumi
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I also remember Steve telling a story about EVH coming to him, played on his guitar, and sounded like himself rather than Steve.
GYiakoumi
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guitarmanK1982 wrote: It's a simple question - what is 'tone'?
Actually the question was ,How do you convince a guy that tone is in the fingers, like I said, if you want to go more in-depth about what tone is, start another thread, and get off my back.
guitarmanK1982
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GYiakoumi wrote:ok hows this.

I believe that the real tone, which separates 1 player from another player is in the fingers. Everybody is unique, that's why if you give 2 separate guitar players identical equipment, they will not sound the same.

If you put Joe Satriani on a Les Paul Standard with a JCM800, he will not sound the same as Slash on a Les Paul Standard with a JCM800.
Isn't that more to do with interpretation, rather than tone?

Do you really think the 'fingers' affects things more than musical issues such as dynamics, picking position, type of plectrum used, etc etc?



Here is a question - if someone made a recording on a player piano, and the original version was recorded, then the player piano performance was recorded by the very same means, do you think you would be able to tell which one was the actual performance and which one was the mechanical performance if you were to hear the two?
guitarmanK1982
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GYiakoumi wrote:
guitarmanK1982 wrote: It's a simple question - what is 'tone'?
Actually the question was ,How do you convince a guy that tone is in the fingers, like I said, if you want to go more in-depth about what tone is, start another thread, and get off my back.
You need to know yourself what tone is before you convince someone else of what it is, or where it is, for that matter.

It would be arrogant to try to 'teach' someone what tone is when you yourself don't understand it. Hence he probably reacted towards you the way he did.

The defences are up because you can't answer me.

Just learn a little before challenging others e.g. the guy on the bus.
GYiakoumi
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guitarmanK1982 wrote: The defences are up because you can't answer me.
Hey, this isn't IM,
guitarmanK1982 wrote: Do you really think the 'fingers' affects things more than musical issues such as dynamics, picking position, type of plectrum used, etc etc?
In short, Yes I do. But I am sure other things matter such as what you said above.
guitarmanK1982 wrote: Here is a question - if someone made a recording on a player piano, and the original version was recorded, then the player piano performance was recorded by the very same means, do you think you would be able to tell which one was the actual performance and which one was the mechanical performance if you were to hear the two?
I don't know much about Piano so I couldn't say.

guitarmanK1982 wrote:
It would be arrogant to try to 'teach' someone what tone is when you yourself don't understand it. Hence he probably reacted towards you the way he did.
So he says that the fingers have nothing to do with tone because he assumed I didn't understand tone?
guitarmanK1982
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Or perhaps you were misusing the word 'tone' for the word 'interpretation', hence some misunderstandings arose?

Tone has a very specific musical definition.

It would be better to say 'sound produced', if this is what you mean.

I'm trying to help you - don't get angry - and don't get rude, or i'll just be rude back to you.



So - if you think tone is 'in the fingers', then what influence do 'the fingers' have in the creation of 'tone', and why?
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notavirtuoso
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guitarmanK1982 wrote:
notavirtuoso wrote:Joe Satriani, John Petrucci and Steve Vai come over to my house to play my gear. I give them some sheet music that they are to play faithfully as written. They are to use my guitar, effects and amp and are not allowed to change any settings or even turn a volume or tone knob. I leave the room and each records the piece. I return and listen. I'd be willing to wager $100 I can tell you who played what and I imagine most here could too.
Surely that's interpretation, rather than tone?!

You'd probably be able to tell the difference due to the phrasing, the dynamics etc etc

But I still don't see the relevance to 'tone'.



I mentioned this idea earlier in the thread, since I thought this is what some people meant.
I didn't say it was tone, I said it was voice. I think people substitute the word tone for voice, not that I think that is what tone is.


RAI wrote:And by that same example, if you took all those guys, and had them just strike a single note (without any special "tricks"), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. "Tone" is in the phrasing and approach to the notes to be played.
I disagree. I think there's a fairly reliable chance that I could tell the difference between players with just one note. Not a betting chance as my example demonstrates, but a reasonable one nonetheless. They wouldn't have to exhibit major techniques, but to strike a note, some sort of technique must be used. How hard/deep do they pick it? Do they end the note by removing the fretting finger or do they let it ring out. Are they able to keep their finger still or are they overwhelmed with the habit of an ever so slight vibrato? Maybe they slide off the note slightly when finished. A lot can be said with just one note, even when ignoring most techniques.

The point is their voice carries through the instrument, whether it's their own gear or not. Like I told guitarmanK1982, it isn't tone, it's voice. I can't help it if people confuse the two. I'm so used to people doing it I don't even pay attention to it anymore and my brain automatically translates it to voice.
GYiakoumi
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guitarmank, i don't really know what you want me to say, I feel as though I am just answering questions and then being thrown more and more questions. I have yet to figure out exactly what you want me to say and I still have no idea why you are battling me. It just feels like you are eager to prove me wrong, is your ego that important to you?(this isn't me being angry or rude, this is me tired and slightly confused,) and yes perhaps I may have misused the word tone for the word Interpretation. What will it take for you to just spare me the lectures and let this topic get back ON-Topic

If proving me wrong is so important to you, then fine you win-

George - OUT (1:37AM) <3 niiight
Last edited by GYiakoumi on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
guitarmanK1982
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notavirtuoso wrote: I didn't say it was tone, I said it was voice. I think people substitute the word tone for voice, not that I think that is what tone is.
What do you mean 'voice'?



notavirtuoso wrote:I disagree. I think there's a fairly reliable chance that I could tell the difference between players with just one note. Not a betting chance as my example demonstrates, but a reasonable one nonetheless. They wouldn't have to exhibit major techniques, but to strike a note, some sort of technique must be used. How hard/deep do they pick it? Do they end the note by removing the fretting finger or do they let it ring out. Are they able to keep their finger still or are they overwhelmed with the habit of an ever so slight vibrato? Maybe they slide off the note slightly when finished. A lot can be said with just one note, even when ignoring most techniques.

OK - so if many famous guitarists was to pick the open E string using the same thickness of plectrum, and were told to pick the note mf, and directly above the middle pickup, do you really think the difference would be discernible?
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