satriani - technically good?

Discuss playing styles and techniques, or share your own here.
SalamanderExcess
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Satch is bloddy good! Honestly, you hear a Satch song and youre like, pah! easy, but actually sitting down and learning them, some of them are pretty hard!
BajoElSol
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Satriani technicaly good :shock: Are you kidding!!!!!

Has your friend heard the solo in Ice 9?

Has your friend heard the solo in Crushing Day?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Time Machine?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Forgotton Part II?

I assume he hasn't, cause he wouldn't have said such a thing.

Maybe the difference is that Satch dosn't bother too much about polluting a song up with just technical shit, something I admire in him. He's the type of player who gets the right note at the right time...something which is a lot more diffiuclt to do.

Bajo
Last edited by BajoElSol on Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
BajoElSol
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Satriani technicaly good :shock: Are you kidding!!!!!

Has your friend heard the solo in Ice 9?

Has your friend heard the solo in Crushing Day?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Time Machine?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Forgotton Part II?

I assume he hasn't, cause he wouldn't have said such a thing.

Maybe the difference is that Satch dosn't bother too much about poluting a song up with just technical shit, something I admire in him. He's the type of player who gets the right note at the right time...something which is a lot more diffiuclt to do.

Bajo.
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lydian7
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me and my friend where having a heated discusion regarding technically good guitar players. i put the point that the following where truely technically amazing. shawn lane, steve vai, rusty cooley ,john petrucci ,buckethead and satriani. now he said satriani isnt very technically and argued that zakk wylde is to a great degree.
miker wrote:He singled out Satriani and didn't bring up Buckethead... :shock: That makes his comments all the more whacked.
I agree. Buckethead's playing is fast but fairly sloppy, and his phrasing lacks soul in places. Satriani has never been into shred, but he has pioneered many techniques that are used today. In order to judge him from a technical point of view you must look at his albums from the late 80s/early 90s, namely Surfing with the Alien, Flying in a Blue Dream and The Extremist. Satriani can be extremely technical, but nowadays he feels that less is more and he tends to excercise a more economical approach to phrasing. I have to say I agree with him, just two notes from satriani's fingers to me is worth more than 1000 notes from players such as Yngwie or Buckethead, there's just more soul there in my humble opinion. ;)

Zakk wylde isn't even in the same class as guitarists like Satriani, Vai, or Holdsworth. Its like comparing a 'K-mart' store to the Sistine chapel.
Last edited by lydian7 on Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
johnz
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j3 wrote: LMAO about that!!!!! ZAKK IS A HACK!!! and borderline-mentally-handicapped to boot. He can rock, he writes some pretty good songs, a few good solos here and there, he generally has pretty good tone(for what he's trying to do), but I definitely wouldn't call him a virtuoso--even by the most liberal standards I can imagine.
It's pretty safe to say that there is not a lick in the world that Zakk could play that Satriani can't. Satriani can alternate pick plenty fast, but WGAS. Running up and down scales and tremelo picking as fast as you can is boring. As far as synchronization goes... give 'boozed, bruised, and broken boned' a spin in your DVD player. Zakk gives a 'guitar lesson' where he's completely blowing it on his own tunes :lol:. If I had a student that was trying to learn those tunes playing just like that, I'd make him/her relearn the lesson with a metronome--something Zakk has probably never heard of :lol: .
Dude, are you on fricken crack or something :shock: ??!!???!!?

vir·tu·o·so ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrch-s, -z)
n. pl. vir·tu·o·sos or vir·tu·o·si (-s)
1.A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style.
2.A person with masterly skill or technique in the arts.
3.Archaic. A very learned person.

Zakk kicks ass on guitar bro....flat out. Sure, when hes with Ozz and BLS he plays the easiest pentatonic licks of all time, but you know what? He plays em faster than any other person ever could.

Let me ask you something to- Have you ever heard the song "Farm Fiddlin"? In just the first minute and 48 sec Zakk blows most country guys out the the water. How about pride and glory? A southern rock meets country band-Zakk defined a genre and ripped it to shreds.

I've personally seen zakk pull shit out of his ass that has never been on a CD or the likes. He can play sweep arpeggios ala Yngwie and legato lines like satch-Does he have a great of a repetoire? No cause thats not how he makes a living. When zakk was a teen he transcribed Al Di Meola song and play em'....... Go back and look at the definition of Virtuoso for me dude.....yea.... 8)

If virtuoso guitarists were in social cliques in highschool, it might look something like this- Eddie would be the popular one
Vai would be the kid who didn't quite fit in but was a remarkable
Zakk would be the jock
Satch would be the guy who was just so cool, but seemed to know everything
Petrucci and Gilbert would be flat out nerds..... :lol:

You see, I love zakks music...Not quite as much as Steve's but the man is still a virtuoso....he can rip- plain and simple.
:wink:
j3
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Dude, are you on fricken crack or something :shock: ??!!???!!?

vir·tu·o·so ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrch-s, -z)
n. pl. vir·tu·o·sos or vir·tu·o·si (-s)
1.A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style.
2.A person with masterly skill or technique in the arts.
3.Archaic. A very learned person.

I gave Zakk the credit he deserves in my disclaimers, but HE IS NOT A VIRTUAOSO F"N PERIOD. Compare his abilities to Charlie Parker, Franz Liszt, Nicolo Paganini, Steve Vai, JS Bach, Allan Holdsworth, Vladamir Horowitz, Guthrie Govan, Paco Delucia, or Maurice Ravel. He hasn't the range, technique, depth, understanding, versatility, creativity.... the list goes on. Zakk IS a badass rock guitar player. HE IS NOT A VIRTUOSO. I don't even consider him an 'artist'. HE IS A POPULAR MUSICIAN. Not that popular musician and artist are mutually exclusive conditions, but HE IS NOT A VIRTUOSO.


Zakk kicks ass on guitar bro....flat out. Sure, when hes with Ozz and BLS he plays the easiest pentatonic licks of all time, but you know what? He plays em faster than any other person ever could.
WTF, just cause you can't play that fast doesn't mean that 5000 guitar teachers across the country can't teach his shit like its Rock Guitar 101.

Let me ask you something to- Have you ever heard the song "Farm Fiddlin"? In just the first minute and 48 sec Zakk blows most country guys out the the water. How about pride and glory?
That stuff is cool, but comparing Zakk to Jerry Donahue is like comparing Randy Rhoads to John Williams on classical guitar.

Seriously, I'm done with this conversation. Those who love Zakk can keep on admiring his talents. Those who agree with me can keep rejecting Zakk's self-appointed position in the musical community. I'm out of this discussion. End of story.
Last edited by j3 on Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
johnz
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J3......what is there to say about you.....hmmm :?

I was explaining my viewpoint in a nonconfrontational way. I was trying to give you the honest respect that I would want from anyone else, but it looks like you didn't like it. I was explaining why I thought he wasn't a "HACK." Listen, I've met the man. I have hung out with Zakk on multiple occasions so don't tell me what he can and can't do. I wouldn't even want you to teach me "Zakk's Shit" cause frankly, you're coming on kinda like a dumbass to me. If you don't respect the man, you obviously wouldn't have respect for his music. Another thing, who are you to say hes an artist or not? eh? Finally, calling me "retarded".....bad move .....I don't want this thread to be locked so I won't say anything more than...bad move :evil:
willbrowne81
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Well....
Zak Playing penatonics faster than anyone...hummmm clearly you havnt heard rusty cooleys use of penatonics or indeed paul gilbert's namely the introduction to colerardo bulldog.(rusty cooleys extreme penatonics)
that was a fairly unresearched statement. I will a gree he can play with a resonable amount of speed but he lacks control. and the excesive amount of distortion does tend to put his playing in slightly jaded light. Emg's enhance the pickattack and give an illusion of greater speed.

As for country players. Michael lee firkins,Greg koch,steve morse in my opion can outplay him.interms of knowlege of music and interptaion of Ideas and techinque.

Iam sure Zak is a lovely chap. butmy no means a patch on satriani on any level.

One last point to stir it even more......Look at the number of indorsments zak has. A Wah pedal, A amp ,A guitar, a Chorus pedal, strings a detect a hint of selling out and making a quick buck.

And thats me finished mouthin off.
johnz
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I can't agree with you more that Zakk isn't on the same level as Satch....but he still has skill. As for the Pentatonics, yea, I know hes not the fastest...That was an exaggeration. When he sent his demo tape to ozzy in 87' up near the top. If a bunch of companies wanted you to endorse their gear....would you? I don't quite think its selling out if you endorse a lot of gear....for instance, Peavey is putting out a whole line of Satch pedals and Amps. I don't think satch is at all a sell out.
TheReaper
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BajoElSol wrote:Satriani technicaly good :shock: Are you kidding!!!!!

Has your friend heard the solo in Ice 9?

Has your friend heard the solo in Crushing Day?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Time Machine?

Has your friend heard the solo in The Forgotton Part II?

I assume he hasn't, cause he wouldn't have said such a thing.

Maybe the difference is that Satch dosn't bother too much about poluting a song up with just technical shit, something I admire in him. He's the type of player who gets the right note at the right time...something which is a lot more diffiuclt to do.

Bajo.
I agree with this. I think you guys are forgetting something very important...

Virtuosity is a tool. Not a style.

To be considered technically good, or a virtuoso do you have to shred a piece of music all the way through from start to finish? OF COURSE NOT!!!!!! But if someone dosn't do this then he's not considered a virtuoso!!!!...I don't see any sense in that.

What Satriani uses is known as speed bursts. Speed burst is, for example, if you look at an entire piece of music then you will notice that the fast parts only last a few measures...but they are technically demanding, or just as technical as playng it for the whole song at warp-speed, as Malmsteen would do (lol)!!!!!!

I consider someone virtuoso if he can play anything which his motor mind demands of him... in other words, his fingers are capable of producing just what he wants to hear. Satriani shows this guys...It's obvious.

TheReaper
johnz
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Virtuosity is a tool. Not a style.

To be considered technically good, or a virtuoso do you have to shred a piece of music all the way through from start to finish? OF COURSE NOT!!!!!! But if someone dosn't do this then he's not considered a virtuoso!!!!...I don't see any sense in that.

What Satriani uses is known as speed bursts. Speed burst is, for example, if you look at an entire piece of music then you will notice that the fast parts only last a few measures...but they are technically demanding, or just as technical as playng it for the whole song at warp-speed, as Malmsteen would do (lol)!!!!!!

I consider someone virtuoso if he can play anything which his motor mind demands of him... in other words, his fingers are capable of producing just what he wants to hear. Satriani shows this guys...It's obvious.

TheReaper
Amen....that is the most logical thing anyone has ever said about anything :P (family guy quote if ya didn't know).. but really that is the truth.
UtopianFir
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Satriani is a badass, Zakk wylde is a badass. Nuff said.
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phoenix2874
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Does anyone recognize the absolute preposterousness of this debate? It`s like two carpenters sitting around arguing about "my screwdriver is better than your hammer". Sure, for properly driving in screws it IS better, but try to get a screw in straight with a hammer :!: And just go ahead and try to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver. I have actually done it, but it sucked.
the point is that two entirely different styles/personalities/musical intentions are being argued here. Joe is a F*cking incredible instrumentalist, Zakk is a great rootsy metal player. Their styles aren`t similar, and the only thing they really have in common is that they are guitar players, much like the only thing a screwdriver and a hammer have in common is that they are both tools (there is a joke in there somewhere...).

This thread started by posing a question of whether or not Joe is good, not BETTER. Is he technically good? You bet your ass he is. Can he play like adrian legg as well as adrian legg? Hardly. Could he have held a candle sitting side by side with Segovia? Likely not. Is he a great instrumental rock guitarist? Some say he invented the style.

Sit back once in a while and take an inventory of what really matters. Stop being so damn judgemental and realize that we should all aspire to embrace all music, whether or not we like it or even listen to it. We are all here because music stirs something in us to pique our soul fire. Who gives a damn about who`s better? Why not just ask "who is good?", and not argue when someone lists someone you don`t agree with? It embarasses me to know that my fellow guitar players and musicians will get in a conversation to discredit and refute the integrity of other fellow musicians. We are here to touch peoples` soul, and inspire people to greater things. leave the bashing to the ignorant asses on other forums (or to an extreme the jackasses that bombed England. What the hell is wrong with the world?).

You know how some of you get riled up when someone bashes Steve Vai? Who`s to say that you haven`t insulted someone so deeply by bashing their favorite? We just need to all get over ourselves and realize that we all feed from the same universal energy, and the more pollutants we put there the more toxic we become.
alienillusions
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phoenix2874 wrote:Does anyone recognize the absolute preposterousness of this debate? It`s like two carpenters sitting around arguing about "my screwdriver is better than your hammer". Sure, for properly driving in screws it IS better, but try to get a screw in straight with a hammer :!: And just go ahead and try to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver. I have actually done it, but it sucked.
the point is that two entirely different styles/personalities/musical intentions are being argued here. Joe is a F*cking incredible instrumentalist, Zakk is a great rootsy metal player. Their styles aren`t similar, and the only thing they really have in common is that they are guitar players, much like the only thing a screwdriver and a hammer have in common is that they are both tools (there is a joke in there somewhere...).

This thread started by posing a question of whether or not Joe is good, not BETTER. Is he technically good? You bet your ass he is. Can he play like adrian legg as well as adrian legg? Hardly. Could he have held a candle sitting side by side with Segovia? Likely not. Is he a great instrumental rock guitarist? Some say he invented the style.

Sit back once in a while and take an inventory of what really matters. Stop being so damn judgemental and realize that we should all aspire to embrace all music, whether or not we like it or even listen to it. We are all here because music stirs something in us to pique our soul fire. Who gives a damn about who`s better? Why not just ask "who is good?", and not argue when someone lists someone you don`t agree with? It embarasses me to know that my fellow guitar players and musicians will get in a conversation to discredit and refute the integrity of other fellow musicians. We are here to touch peoples` soul, and inspire people to greater things. leave the bashing to the ignorant asses on other forums (or to an extreme the jackasses that bombed England. What the hell is wrong with the world?).

You know how some of you get riled up when someone bashes Steve Vai? Who`s to say that you haven`t insulted someone so deeply by bashing their favorite? We just need to all get over ourselves and realize that we all feed from the same universal energy, and the more pollutants we put there the more toxic we become.
Not sure how you weaved the England bombing into the topic, but dude, such is human nature to argue and pontificate and getting torqued by someones opinion whether it is right or not is not worth the emotional war you are waging against yourslef. Breeeeeeathe.....
alienillusions
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phoenix2874 wrote:Does anyone recognize the absolute preposterousness of this debate? It`s like two carpenters sitting around arguing about "my screwdriver is better than your hammer". Sure, for properly driving in screws it IS better, but try to get a screw in straight with a hammer :!: And just go ahead and try to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver. I have actually done it, but it sucked.
the point is that two entirely different styles/personalities/musical intentions are being argued here. Joe is a F*cking incredible instrumentalist, Zakk is a great rootsy metal player. Their styles aren`t similar, and the only thing they really have in common is that they are guitar players, much like the only thing a screwdriver and a hammer have in common is that they are both tools (there is a joke in there somewhere...).

This thread started by posing a question of whether or not Joe is good, not BETTER. Is he technically good? You bet your ass he is. Can he play like adrian legg as well as adrian legg? Hardly. Could he have held a candle sitting side by side with Segovia? Likely not. Is he a great instrumental rock guitarist? Some say he invented the style.

Sit back once in a while and take an inventory of what really matters. Stop being so damn judgemental and realize that we should all aspire to embrace all music, whether or not we like it or even listen to it. We are all here because music stirs something in us to pique our soul fire. Who gives a damn about who`s better? Why not just ask "who is good?", and not argue when someone lists someone you don`t agree with? It embarasses me to know that my fellow guitar players and musicians will get in a conversation to discredit and refute the integrity of other fellow musicians. We are here to touch peoples` soul, and inspire people to greater things. leave the bashing to the ignorant asses on other forums (or to an extreme the jackasses that bombed England. What the hell is wrong with the world?).

You know how some of you get riled up when someone bashes Steve Vai? Who`s to say that you haven`t insulted someone so deeply by bashing their favorite? We just need to all get over ourselves and realize that we all feed from the same universal energy, and the more pollutants we put there the more toxic we become.
Not sure how you weaved the England bombing into the topic, but dude, such is human nature to argue and pontificate, and getting torqued by someones opinion whether it is right or not is not worth the emotional war you are waging against yourself. Breeeeeeathe.....Go buy a retro Killer Dwarfs album and laugh out loud at it's absurdity and comedy. :o
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